Two people face criminal charges after being removed during a Tarrant County Commissioners Court meeting for clapping out of turn and swearing, county criminal records show.
Carolyn Rodriguez, who goes by Carolina, and Charles Hermes were charged with hindering proceedings by disorderly conduct. That’s a Class A misdemeanor — the most serious level — punishable by up to a year in jail and a fine up to $4,000.
Hermes clapped for an audience member who spoke during public comment at the Jan. 28 meeting, after County Judge Tim O’Hare warned him not to do it. In a phone interview, he said his criminal charge could have a chilling effect.
"If we want to live in a society where people aren't afraid to go to the commissioners court and express their concerns about our county, they can't worry that they're going to be facing Class A misdemeanors for something as silly as clapping," he said.
The Tarrant County District Attorney’s Office filed the complaints against Rodriguez and Hermes in late January and early February, respectively. The DA's office does not comment on pending cases, a spokesperson said over email.
At the meeting on Jan. 28, commissioners were set to discuss new rules of decorum after a series of contentious public meetings.
People were allowed to clap for a man who sang "God Bless America” to start the meeting, Hermes said, questioning why his clapping was unacceptable.
Hermes was also arrested at the Jan. 14 commissioners court meeting for speaking out of turn and at a pro-Palestine protest at UT Arlington last May.
Hermes, a longtime UTA lecturer, was placed on paid administrative leave in March, with the university citing complaints about his teaching, according to the Fort Worth Report. Hermes told the Report he suspected it was due to political pressure, pointing to a recent positive evaluation from his department chair. He confirmed to KERA News he is still on leave.
Rodriguez, a local YouTuber who films interactions with police, was arrested at the Jan. 28 commissioners court meeting after she swore during her allotted public comment time.
CJ Grisham, an attorney who spoke before her, got kicked out for swearing. Rodriguez listed off several offensive words in defense of Grisham. As Rodriguez was ordered out, followed by deputies, she yelled “[Expletive] you!”
Rodriguez was protesting the meeting rules that ban swearing, she said in a phone interview Tuesday.
"I didn't think that the decorum should be able to trump the Constitution,” she said. “It violates your rights. It violates your free speech rights, and that's what I was challenging."
Grisham was not arrested for his swearing, Rodriguez said. Neither was County Commissioner Alisa Simmons, who also swore while standing up for Grisham’s right to do so.
Travis Fife, staff attorney at the Texas Civil Rights Project, works on First Amendment cases. Governments are allowed to set rules for how meetings are run, he said, but he’s never heard of someone being charged with a Class A misdemeanor after breaking them.
“I think that it's a pretty grotesque abuse of the criminal law to silence public participation in government,” Fife said.
Both Rodriguez and Hermes are being represented by attorney Mark Streiff.
“Both of these cases involve the freedom of expression and the freedom of speech, and quite frankly, in my opinion, should not have even been brought to a criminal court,” he said.
It’s unclear how often people are charged for hindering proceedings by disorderly conduct. Streiff referenced one Tarrant County case where a man was convicted of this crime after being accused of threatening to harm a criminal court judge.
Got a tip? Email Miranda Suarez at msuarez@kera.org.
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