David Lowery’s made a pair of movies for Disney. He directed Robert Redford in his final performance as a leading man. And he got his start making short films that played at local film festivals. His new film is “Mother Mary,” and just ahead of its opening today the Dallas director talks about what connects his films — and his obsession with ghosts:
KERA: "Mother Mary" centers on Anne Hathaway, a globally famous pop star making a comeback, and Michaela Coel, her longtime costume designer with whom she's had a falling out. This is really the definition of what they call a “two-hander,” and I think it's safe to say that the movie was gonna sink or swim based on their chemistry. When did you know that this was definitely going to work?
David Lowery: The moment that we got together in a room for the first time was when the script really came alive. But by that point, I had cast Anne and Michaela maybe seven months prior to that and had trusted my instincts and really believed that no matter what that chemistry was that the movie was going to be … it was gonna be just fine. I didn't know what would happen when we all got in a room together for the first time, but I knew that whatever it was going to be was going to be electric.
KERA: The posters for the movie tell you very clearly that this is not a love story and this is not a ghost story, and yet having seen it, it seems to me that it's at least one, if not both of those things. I realize some of this may be the work of the marketing department, but it seems like you're kind of trying to keep the audience a bit off guard even before the movie starts.
Lowery: Maybe I'm trying to — I don’t think I'm trying to knock anybody off their feet or set up false expectations. But what I'm trying to do with those taglines is invite audiences to look beyond certain aspects of the movie that are certainly inclusive of the experience they're gonna have. There is going to be a love story. There is gonna be a ghost. But the movie is more than either of those things and ultimately more than the accumulation of either of those things. It is pushing further and deeper than merely a love story or merely a ghost story. And so I wanted to set the stage with the marketing campaign to invite audiences to, as they're watching it, to inquire what it is that the movie is actually about.
KERA: By my count, this is at least your second movie that involves ghosts in some way. You made a previous film literally called "A Ghost Story". Is there something about ghosts that interests you?
Lowery: I love them. I just love ghosts. I'm guilty of just loving ghosts in all of their forms. I think that on one hand, I love horror films. I love scary movies. I love haunted houses. So, I love ghosts in their most literal form. I also love the metaphors that they can afford me as a storyteller. They can permutate in so many different ways and serve so many purposes. And as a fan of that mode of storytelling, of haunted houses, of ghost stories, of anything that involves a spectral apparition — both either literal or metaphorical — I suspect that this will not be my last movie that involves ghosts in some shape, way or form.
KERA: I don't want to say that this movie is demanding, because that makes it sound like work. But I do think that its rewards come if you're really willing to engage with it deeply and contemplate everything that you're seeing and being told and just … be an active viewer. When you're writing a movie, do you think about that balance of what you're very clear about versus what you allow viewers the space to fill in the gaps and come to their own conclusions?
Lowery: I definitely am thinking of the audience every step of the way. And I know that this movie is one that is going to ask a certain amount of the audience. In some ways we are laying bare what the movie is very early on, like the characters describe what the movie is going to be about within the actual text of the movie.
And yet at the same time there is a lot that the audience is going to have to engage with to fully experience everything that is there to be experienced and everything that's there to be understood or felt. It's a very emotional movie that has a lot of deep feeling, but to truly engage with those feelings is requires active participation. And as an avid moviegoer I know that that is a type of movie going experience I really love. Even when I see a movie that I don't necessarily like upon first viewing, if it is inviting me to engage with it on both an intellectual and emotional level, I value that experience.
I really have a good time at the movies, even if a movie is an incredibly depressing one or a really devastating one, I come out of it feeling like I've been through something, and I value that. So, in writing a film like this, I'm seeking to make myself happy as an audience member and trusting that there are other audiences who will feel likewise.
KERA: You've now made a couple of movies for Disney, a medieval fantasy, a heist movie, some supernatural stories as we've talked about. Would you say that there's a common thread that runs through the films that you make?
Lowery: Perhaps a common thread is that I made them? And I can stop right there and let other people tell me what the true cohesion really is.
I've always said that all of my films feel like bedtime stories or folktales or … they participate in the tradition of mythic storytelling. But “Mother Mary” is one where I'm like, does it? Maybe this is the exception to the rule? And I was thinking that until the other night when someone reached out to me and said this felt like another great bedtime story. And I breathed a sigh of relief when he said that, because it made me feel like, OK, great, I'm not stepping outside my comfort zone too much here. But I know there's through lines. As someone who studiously pays attention to the filmographies of the directors I admire, I know that when someone makes multiple films, there are cohesive threads running through all of them. But it's not my place to acknowledge or even pay attention to the ones that exist within my own. I'll let audiences and my therapist take care of that for me.
KERA: So one consistent element I've noticed is an actress who seemed to have taken a shine to named Atheena Frizzell, who's now been in at least three of your films. What makes her so special?
Lowery: Well, Atheena Frizzell is my stepdaughter, and...
KERA: I teed you up for that one.
Lowery: Yes, exactly. And I am grateful that she has agreed to appear in both my movies and my wife Augustine's films, because she's incredibly talented and I love working with her. But I also want my movies to feel like home, so I can include my family. And I mean, ideally I'd be including all of my cats in all of our films as well, but they don't really want to fly to Germany to act in a medieval barn. But really, making movies is a family affair for me. My cast and my crew is always – they always feel like family, and in Atheena's case, they literally are.
