STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
A much-criticized peace plan for Ukraine appears to be pushed aside.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
The Trump administration started negotiations over a 28-point proposal drawn up with input from Russia. Now Europeans have put their own offer on the table. In a few minutes, we'll hear an expert's perspective on what Russia might be trying to accomplish. But first...
INSKEEP: NPR's Eleanor Beardsley is following whatever is on the table. Eleanor, Hi.
ELEANOR BEARDSLEY, BYLINE: Good morning, Steve.
INSKEEP: OK. So how is the European proposal different from what we've discussed in recent days?
BEARDSLEY: Well, a Ukrainian member of the negotiating team said the 28-point plan, as we knew it, no longer exists. So this original draft peace plan was an absolute Kremlin wish list, according to Ukraine and the Europeans who really came together to present a unified front and to weigh in along with Kyiv. And you know, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz told President Trump that the entire European continent was at stake in the negotiations, and he said a lasting peace is not going to be quick, so that Thanksgiving deadline is out. French President Emmanuel Macron said, we want peace, but not a peace that's a capitulation. You know, because European security is at stake here.
Now, I've been unable to confirm this, but one media is reporting that the presidents of Italy and Finland are going to meet in the coming days with President Trump. Note, they are both considered Trump whisperers. Finnish President Alexander Stubb plays golf with Trump. But even Secretary of State Marco Rubio hailed good progress in Geneva. He said Ukraine's membership in NATO is still under discussion, and Ukrainians and Europeans say security guarantees to make sure Russia does not reinvade in the future are keys to any lasting peace.
INSKEEP: What does Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the president of Ukraine, think about all this?
BEARDSLEY: Well, he spoke to his nation last night. He said it's a plan Ukraine can work with, a constructive one that could really end the war. You know, let's note that this is identical to a plan presented in April of 2022, which didn't work out. The difference today is exhaustion and heavy losses after four years of fighting. Zelenskyy said he'd be discussing the sensitive points of the peace with President Trump. He's referring to the Eastern Ukrainian provinces that are partially occupied by Russia, but Russia hasn't fully taken them. Ukraine is ready to freeze those lines but rules out ceding this entire territory to Russia and having it internationally recognized, which was in the first plan. Here is Zelenskyy speaking last night.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: (Speaking Ukrainian).
BEARDSLEY: You know, he warned Ukrainians to be very attentive in the days and weeks to come for the air alerts, reminding that Russia will not reduce its pressure. And Steve, as if on cue, the attacks began, air raid sirens began to wail in Kyiv, which was Russia's largest target last night with 22 missiles, 400 drones. Six people were killed, according to the mayor of Kyiv, and a few of us slept in our safe room here in Kyiv last night.
INSKEEP: Well, what kinds of conversations do you hear when you're able to get out on the street, or you're crowded in the safe room?
BEARDSLEY: Well, no, we got out. And believe it or not, Ukrainians are kind of used to this whiplash of back-and-forth negotiations. I talked to people going to work. I spoke with architect Anton Melnyk, who's from the big eastern-central city of Dnipro. He came to the capital for some training. Here he is.
ANTON MELNYK: (Speaking Ukrainian).
BEARDSLEY: You know, he says, "thank God I slept through the attacks on the train." But he said this new plan could only be better than the old plan, which was written by Russia. But he said Ukrainians are still under so much pressure, and he called on the international community to, quote, "smother Russia with sanctions to squeeze and destroy its war machine."
INSKEEP: OK. What did the Russians say about that?
BEARDSLEY: Well, last night, an adviser to the Kremlin rejected the European plan, saying it would not work for Russia, but Russians are meeting U.S. counterparts today in Abu Dhabi. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is probably coming to Washington to meet with President Trump. But Russia has dropped none of its maximalist goals, so it's hard to see any common points between the two sides. And analysts say, as long as President Vladimir Putin thinks he can make gains on the battlefield, he'll continue. It doesn't matter how many soldiers he's losing, which, by estimates, is 35,000 soldiers a month.
INSKEEP: Wow. NPR's Eleanor Beardsley is in Kyiv. Thanks so much, Eleanor.
BEARDSLEY: You're welcome, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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