AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Every week, a guest draws a card from NPR's Wild Card deck to answer a big life question. Brene Brown says to be courageous, you first need to be vulnerable. In her new book "Strong Ground," she explores leadership in our rapidly changing world with a popular quote that she uses for guidance.
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BRENE BROWN: The quote is, is that "between stimulus and response, there is a space. And in that space is the power of choice. And in that choice is our growth and our freedom." And I understand right now that stimulus and response are just smashed together, but it's the job right now, I think, of great leaders, I think, in our families, in our own lives, to create a space between stimulus and response.
CHANG: Brene Brown talked with the host of Wild Card, Rachel Martin.
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RACHEL MARTIN: What's a moment with a stranger that made you feel loved?
BROWN: I am pretty sure that I have escaped death every time I fly. I'm pretty sure it's not - we're not supposed to be doing that. And I continue to get on planes 'cause I have to for my work, but I do believe it's death-defying every time. And so over the past 20 years, no matter who's sitting next to me, if the turbulence gets bad, I will say - I will play the same game. I'm like, hey, I'm scared, and I was wondering if I could just talk to you for a few minutes. And they're usually like, sure. And then I say, what's your favorite type of food? You know, and they'll say, Italian. And I'll say, what's your favorite Italian? What's your favorite dessert? And I kind of just engage with them that way. And I don't know if it makes me feel loved, but it makes me believe in love.
MARTIN: Yeah.
BROWN: Because I think if you put the person who I hate today the most - which will be someone around politics probably - in a seat next to me and we're going down, we're probably going to hold hands and pray. One of my big things is to try to find the face of God in everyone. And mostly, I see people and I want to punch them in the throat. And so it makes it really hard because you don't want to ever punch God in the throat. I mean...
MARTIN: Right.
BROWN: ...Like, I can be irreverent, but no. I think it's just a weird reminder that in some really deep way, we belong to each other.
MARTIN: Are people mostly receptive when you're having one of those moments and you're like, I need to talk to you right now? Like, are they doing it reluctantly, or are they - they're like, I get it. Are they generous with you?
BROWN: One time, one guy was kind of an [expletive]. And it was helpful 'cause in that moment, I was like, Lord, deliver me from this Earth and these people.
MARTIN: (Laughter).
BROWN: He still helped. He just wasn't a willing participant. I was just like, oh, yeah. OK, I get it.
MARTIN: This is my time.
BROWN: This is - take me to the promised land.
MARTIN: (Laughter).
CHANG: Watch the full chat with Brene Brown by searching for Wild Card with Rachel Martin on YouTube. Brene Brown's "Strong Ground" is out now.
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